ELCC

[ebonywnd]

We have decided to write a letter to the ELCC saying that we approve/agree with their recent actions (see "Have you been following the ELCC?").

If anyone would like to have a hand in writing the letter, please post here when you are available. We'll try our best to make it work for everyone, but we also want this to go out soon, so please post quickly!

Thanks.

-Laura

[profdunebastard]

As always, I am willing to help, but in this case I feel underqualified as my knowledge of political protocall and political correctness is ... lacking. I feel this task will be easier/more quickly done, with only a few people working on it, and as I feel I have little to contribute, there are better candidates. That said I am here all day and available if needed.

[Seany-D]

I would like to help draft the letter.

I am generally available in the evenings.

Saturday I am helping a fellow heathen move, so daytime is out. Ditto for Sunday (Thou Shalt Not Interfere With NFL Sunday -- the 11th Commandment).

Sean "the only sports-oriented heathen left in MI, it seems" Davis

[Sage1776]

I am interested in writing a dissenting opinion or being kicked out of the group for my crazy atheist, pro-choice, tolerant, anti-involuntary servitude, views.
Can't we focus our efforts on issues concerning atheism?

[Seany-D]

Sage1776 said:

I am interested in writing a dissenting opinion or being kicked out of the group for my crazy atheist, pro-choice, tolerant, anti-involuntary servitude, views.
Can't we focus our efforts on issues concerning atheism?

No one is going to "kick you out" for having a dissenting opinion. However, we are the "Freethinker Alliance", not the "Atheist Alliance". We exist as an organization to espouse a philosophy first, not a religion, or a rejection thereof. To insist that we focus solely on atheism is irresponsible based on our founding principles.

As for the ELCC issue, if anyone else is opposed to the idea of supporting the ELCC's decision on this legislation, I would suggest that it be brought up here. I do believe that the majority of members are in concert with the council's reasoning on this one. If not, then it would be inappropriate to draft a letter in the organization's name. Would anyone else like to chime in on this issue? I don't see my own views as being intolerant, but as weighing the rights of the patient against the rights of the employee. Of more interest might be the role of the physician in this scenerio, but I digress.

If you, Sage, are interested in writing the city council personally concerning your views, their contact information can be found here: www.cityofeastlansing.com/

Sean "serves up posts regardless of prescription" Davis

[TheBuckeyeBitch]

Seany-D said:

Sean "the only sports-oriented heathen left in MI, it seems" Davis

Sorry buddy...I kinda left you hanging :-p Maybe I'll be able to swing up for the OSU-MSU game on Nov. 6th, pending my schedule.


As for the topic at hand:

Might I suggest that a proposed letter written in the organization's name be put to a vote according to the group constitutional policy? Otherwise, keeping it as a letter of private citizens would be the most prudent course, IMO.

Susan "insert clever tagline here" Wise

[Seany-D]

Guest-TheBuckeyeBitch said:

Sorry buddy...I kinda left you hanging :-p Maybe I'll be able to swing up for the OSU-MSU game on Nov. 6th, pending my schedule.

I wonder if we could find you a reasonably-priced ticket for the student section ... of course, rooting for the bad guys would get you a rousing chorus of "ASSS-HOOOOLE" from the green 'n' white boys.

Guest-TheBuckeyeBitch said:

Might I suggest that a proposed letter written in the organization's name be put to a vote according to the group constitutional policy? Otherwise, keeping it as a letter of private citizens would be the most prudent course, IMO.

I should mention, my reason for stating that the group seemed in agreement was that no one objected when it was brought up Wed. night, but seeing as how it was not brought up formally, perhaps a formal introduction and vote would be in order.

Sean "vote early; vote often" Davis

[UsherBen]

I believe that the drafting of said letter should be carryed out as planned, then brought up to a vote. this way, all involved would know what they are voting on, exactly. If there is any problem/cause for a change in wording, it could be addressed on the spot. In the event that it is struck down, it can simply be submitted in the names of the writers.

[the anti-myrmidon]

Seany-D said:

I wonder if we could find you a reasonably-priced ticket for the student section ... of course, rooting for the bad guys would get you a rousing chorus of "ASSS-HOOOOLE" from the green 'n' white boys.

I still have about 8 MSU t-shirts that I could wear to blend in. Hell, I wore one today to a graduate student welcome picnic (yeah, laundry day is coming up).

Susan "another student in my lab is from UofM and hasn't been lynched yet" Wise

[Seany-D]

<mode==bitter, sarcastic>

explain this "graduate student welcome picnic" thing to me. In the last few weeks, I've been (a) denied health insurance, (b) denied my pay, and (c) talked to like, well ... not nicely, to be vague. Why can't MSU grad students be treated like humans too?

OTOH, I got a reply in the mail from Ron Mason's office concerning my complaint from two weeks ago. *Somebody* on this earth took me seriously, at least for a minute!

Sean "Arf! Arf!" Davis

</mode>

[the anti-myrmidon]

We got a few pieces of party sub and some cookies..that's about it.

OSU doesn't cover health insurance...you have to buy in, and so far the grad council has only been able to get partial coverage. I haven't been paid yet either, and my cable/internet company doesn't seem to want to let me access my account to see if my payment went through.

Susan "Grad school's a bitch, ain't it?" Wise

PS: in even worse news...Ohio so far appears to be leaning toward Shrub. 4 more years is looking to be the likely scenario.

[Atsuko73]

I think it would be improper to write a letter from the group if the entire group wasn't behind it. I think it should be discussed (in a civil manner) at the next meeting. in the meanwhile, you guys can continue to write it, and if nothing else, we can each send a copy of that, individually.

[Seany-D]

The group should be behind the letter, if so desired, and I think that language indicating that it was the majority-will of the group is appropriate, but if you're implying, Renee, that the letter must be unanimously agreed upon, that I do not agree with. The legislative bodies in this country don't require unanimous consent on anything, and neither should we. I'd be glad to discuss the issue at the meeting, though.

Sean "I can't even agree with myself on everything" Davis

[Sage1776]

Language indicating that it was the majority-will is good enough for me, and I am the sole person being a pain.

I just think that it will harm out future interests to be perceived as a minority group pursuing their narrow self-interest, rather than a group willing to put the common good above our narrow self-interests. (In the long-run, separation of church and state is in everyone’s interest).
Minority groups perceived as pursuing their narrow self-interests are generally, at best, ignored.

[ebonywnd]

I didn't mean to imply that this wasn't going to be discussed at the next meeting. It will be, and we would like to see how many other differing opinions are out there.

Those who still want to write the letter can just put their names on it. It doesn't have to have the group name on it. I'm sure the ELCC gets personal letters all the time. Like said in the other thread....the letter won't be written during meeting time anyway.