Yeah, I'm gonna go there....

[Seany-D]

Debra Lafave.

If you don't know the name by now, crawl out from under the rock and read a bit: www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0628042teach1.html

Now, two questions:

1. (serious) If the genders were reversed, wouldn't the outrage be more palpable? Seems to me that it is almost expected that the boy will bang her like a gong, but if a male teacher did the same to a girl, it would be clearly taking advantage of her. The boy was obviously taken advantage of, pawn-style. The sexual stereotype of boys banging anything walking and being "lucky" to bag a chick, while girls are much more responsible and clearly taken advantage of in such a situation could use a little revision. At least Debbie ain't preggers, Mary Kay Letourneau-style.

2. (ornery) Why didn't any of *MY* middle school teachers look that hot?

Sean "she could have taught me how to read, and I could have taught her how to add ... past the statutory age" Davis

[ebonywnd]

Ok...she's a reasonably attractive women....some would say "hot"...so what is she doing banging a pimply, awkward teenager? I doubt it was love, though I suppose it's not unheard of.

[Seany-D]

ebonywnd said:

Ok...she's a reasonably attractive women....some would say "hot"...so what is she doing banging a pimply, awkward teenager? I doubt it was love, though I suppose it's not unheard of.

Well, she's certainly better looking than any teacher I had in middle school. High school was a different story. But ol' teach didn't hit on me there, either.

Being as how the kid in question is a minor, we'll not see a pic of him to determine his relative pimpliness. He was in lust, not love, undoubtedly. He got caught braggin' about the bangin'. Bad form, dude.

Thinking about this case drags me back into serious mode: if she was a he, I suspect the focus would be on the teacher being a sexual predator. Given that the defendant is a she, I suspect the trial will focus on her having some sort of psychological disorder, most likely some depression and feelings of inadequacy. Some psychologist is going to make big bucks off of this case.

Oh, and the fact that model pics of her have surfaced showing her in suggestive poses will just kill her in the court of public opinion, despite the fact that such pics should have absolutely no bearing whatsoever on this case, unless said pics had her nekkid with an 8 y/o, or something like that.

Sean "didn't know that sex ed. had a lab component" Davis

[ebonywnd]

I don't think there's any denying that it is partially another gender inequality issue. She will not be seen as a sexual predator by most of the population. She'll likely claim psychological issues to lessen the severity of her sentence. If a guy tried to do the same, he'd be believed to be lying through his teeth. Most people just don't want to believe that men can be sexually vulnerable too. Now...since the boy was bragging about banging the teacher, it seems likely that he was in fact just horny...but there is always the possibility that he's putting a good face on it all.

People seem to be doubly offended by the fact that the female was the aggressor. We, of course, are supposed to be meek and demure in bed. I don't think there are many men who would want to claim that their woman is insatiable or wild in the sack, for fear that others would see her as a tramp...even if she was completely faithful. This image has changed a changed a bit, but it can cause serious mindjobs for young women (particularly religious ones, but I won't go there). Women can be just as passionate as men, but popular views are that they shouldn't show it.

And now onto the fact that she was banging a.. 14 year old, was it? Now....shouldn't we be calling her a pedophile? At what age is it pedophilia and at what age is it just seriously morally wrong? And what age difference turns it from two people exploring their sexuality into sexual predation? There are no charges that can be filed against two 14 year olds who decide to fuck, but if a 17 year old and a 19 year old get busy, then God help that 19 year old if the parents catch them. How does one year make the difference between being able to choose to have sex, and being preyed upon? There's no denying that at some ages, even if the person is sexually mature enough, they still aren't mentally mature, or ready for sex, and can be taken advantage of. If it is mutually consented, then there should be no problem. Of course, you'll still have the girls who will claim they didn't consent after the fact to save face (proving that they weren't mature enough) But...if she (or he) does consent at the time...how is the other party supposed to know that they weren't really mentally ready? There really isn't a set age for such things.

I think I'm done for the day now.

-Laura "sex is tricky, especially when you put that leg there, and the other one over there" McIntosh

[Seany-D]

ebonywnd said:

People seem to be doubly offended by the fact that the female was the aggressor. We, of course, are supposed to be meek and demure in bed. I don't think there are many men who would want to claim that their woman is insatiable or wild in the sack, for fear that others would see her as a tramp...even if she was completely faithful.

Nothin' wrong with being a little feisty in the sack, me says. One of the more memorable quotes from my mentor, Mr. Gary Smith:

"Now listen, son, all men want to find a woman who's an angel in the kitchen and a whore in the bedroom."

Hee hee heeee, that Gary. He's so quotable! ;D

OK, now seriously:

I don't think people are shocked that she's a wild li'l' slut, but are in fact, quite the opposite, attracted to the story because she's fit, attractive and kinky. If she looked like Weezie Jefferson, there'd be some disgust as every male pictures themself, age 14, movin' on up to the eastside. That's one instance where I wouldn't be happy that we finally got a piece of the pie!! I think her image has a lot to do with how the case will be handled by the media, and unfortunately, by the legal system, as I mentioned before. Whether she posed in a modelling mag should have nothing to do with this ... it's the age of the hoo-dilly that she stuck in her cha-cha that is of issue.

ebonywnd said:

And now onto the fact that she was banging a.. 14 year old, was it? Now....shouldn't we be calling her a pedophile?

I think so. After all, a pedophile is turned on by illicit sexual contact with underage humans, right?

ebonywnd said:

Of course, you'll still have the girls who will claim they didn't consent after the fact to save face (proving that they weren't mature enough) But...if she (or he) does consent at the time...how is the other party supposed to know that they weren't really mentally ready? There really isn't a set age for such things.

Simple: don't use your penis/ovaries as sexual divining rods. Get to know the human you wanna freak. Hard thing to teach horny little kids, but the teacher should have known that. She very well may have a psychological problem that prevented her rational thought, or maybe her vibrator was on the fritz, but there's little excuse for romping about when you're married, much less bandying about with a 14 year old. What was post-sex conversation like?

"You've got a great ass. Wanna see my Pokemon collection?" "Want a candy cigarette?"

I can't help but wonder if we'd have the same level of sexual disorder in this country if we weren't so sexually repressive. I'm not talking about breaking out titty bars on all the street corners, but kids grow up thinking sex is a dirty thing and not to be talked about. Just tell 'em, people have sex. It's fun. It feels groovy. Learn how to handle it responsibility, just like a handgun. Still, this isn't to absolve teach and the little squirt of their personal responsibility in the issue. We all go to bed at night having to answer to ourselves about the way we treat others. Don't be a jackass. But getting a little freak on doesn't hurt, as long as it's between two consenting adults.

Of course, people use Big Daddy and JC as an instrument of confusion here ... but I'll leave that be for now.

Sean "probably dropping a level deeper into hell with all these comments" Davis

[Rama]

Yeah yeah, old topic I know. I've been away for a while though.
There are several things in this thread I'll take issue with. Firstly, the comment that not many guys would want an aggressive woman in bed...is laughably wrong. Hillariously wrong, in fact. I'm pretty sure it's not just me, but if a girl just sits there like a sack of potatoes, that's a DEFINITE count against her. In fact, it illustrates one of the traditional dichotomies that has always counted against women. Men supposedly want a virgin, but also someone who's great (eg, "wild") in bed.
Myself, I'll take the latter over the former any day of the week. So will most other guys who are experienced enough to make a judgement. I think the difference between how guys want girls to be and how girls think guys want girls to be is rather telling about the sociological barriers to good ol' fashioned healthy discussion on topics of this nature.
Moving on, I also disagree with the statements offered up thus far about the defniition of "pedophile". It's important to define pedophile not as someone sexually attracted to "underaged" people (as the definition for "underaged" varies greatly with culture), but as someone sexually attracted to sexually immature people. Despite the icky feelings we all get when thinking about things like this, the simple fact of the matter is that people are ready to reproduce FAR earlier than our society will let them. This leads to the rampant teen pregnancy rates and other ills surrounding the issue, perhaps even the one currently in discussion.
A brief examination of humanity's history will reveal that our current society is bass ackward as far as kids vs adults goes. Nearly all pre-modern (if you wanna use that word) societies had a rigidly defined and very well drawn out line between immature and mature. See various "coming of age" ceremonies in whatever indiginous peoples you like. It's always been pretty much the same though. At whatever age, little jimmy goes out on the hunt, bags a rhino/wildabeest/deer/whatever, then comes home and bags his lady. Modern civilization is unique in the fabrication of the concept of the "young adult", that is the teenager. Their bodies are telling them they're ready to reproduce (puberty, etc.) while their society tells them they aren't. It makes perfect sense when looking at the long range habits of humanity. Back when our life expectancy was only 30 years, it wouldn't make much sense to wait until you were 23 to get married and have kids. Your body evolved with the abiliity to have children at age ~13 because that was the best trait to survival. Of course, this kinda gets in the way nowadays what with morals and values and things of that sort.
The net result is a person who is physically ready to mate, but not psychologically/sociologically. This is disruptive for the many obvious reasons, moreso when the evil fuckers like this woman come along who don't really give a shit if someone is mentally ready to copulate or not.
Anyhow, to get back to my point, pedophillia is defined as something other than what this woman did (think catholic priest with 8 year old altar boys). Yes, this woman is an entirely different kind of repugnant, and as such deserves her own special label. What that label might be aside from "destructive, callous, worthless little bint" I have no idea.
I coulda sworn I had another point to make, but it was probably just some sort of insult to the cojone-tistical value of a man who has his woman stolen by a 14 year old. Or at least an insult to the intellect of someone who'd marry a bitch as fucked up as this one.

[ebonywnd]

I'd like to clarify something that people seem to have gotten confused. I was being sarcastic when I said women were supposed to be meek in the bedroom, and in a later comment, I meant that a woman who isn't afraid to admit that she enjoys sex is sometimes seen as a slut, or worse, because there is that view that women are supposed to be chaste still out there.

Other than that, I enjoyed your post Nathan.

[Seany-D]

I concur with much of what you've said, Nathan, but the reason that I used the term "underage" when discussing pedophilia is because, generally, there are many folk who are of sexual maturity but yet not of mature enough mind to handle bumpin' uglies. I recently read an article (now if I can only remember where -- it wasn't from the Vatican, I know that much) that illustrated a case of "teenager-ism" in a certain species of ape. There exists an age of animal whereby they are old enough to be sexually mature (dudes are not shooting blanks) yet they do not pair up with hoes, nor place ads on match.com, or whatever the hell it is that apes do when they feel the need to make apelets. I think you maybe onto something, though, insofar as this woman may not have been engaged in pedophilia, but she sure was taking advantage of someone sexually who wasn't necessarily of a mind to rationally keep it in his Calvin Kleins. Nice post.

Oh, and I think Nathan caught your sarcasm, Laura, but sad fact of the matter is that many ladies believe what you wrote. Note to these ladies: get yer freak on! It's OK!!

Sean "break out the whipped cream and the German porn" Davis

[Rama]

Seany-D said:

Oh, and I think Nathan caught your sarcasm, Laura, but sad fact of the matter is that many ladies believe what you wrote. Note to these ladies: get yer freak on! It's OK!!

Sean "break out the whipped cream and the German porn" Davis

Hee hee, I'd like to claim that I did, but I didn't. I'll have to give more credit where credit is due and pay more attention in the future.
Anyhow Sean, what you said about being physically but not mentally ready for copulation is pretty much what I was getting at with the whole "young adult" thing, so I think we're pretty much in agreement there.
The ape thing is interesting though, if you run into the article I wouldn't mind reading it.

[FishBait]

"Now listen, son, all men want to find a woman who's an angel in the kitchen and a whore in the bedroom."

Don't forget Usher "wanna lady in the street but a freak in the bed."

"Whether she posed in a modelling mag should have nothing to do with this ... it's the age of the hoo-dilly that she stuck in her cha-cha that is of issue."

-That is going on the quotes page next time I get a chance

and about the ape thing i can offer my proffesional opinion...i'm not sure where you heard this, but there are many different species where the male doesn't get the ability to breed as soon as he's able becuase of competition with other males but i don't think i've heard of males and females both waiting past sexual maturity

[Seany-D]

Actually, Carolyn, the article specifically mentioned that the lack of gettin' it on, Planet of the Apes style, was not due to competition; supposedly, these apes had reached ape-puberty and there were available female-ape partners, but there was a period where the teen-male-apes were not leaving their family-unit-type structure to go cavort with the ladies, and the reasoning seemed to be due to learning some sort of survival stuff, or social stuff, IIRC. I *really* need to track down this article, but I also really need to make headway in my research before the Big Bad Advisor returns.

Sean "maybe it wasn't apes; maybe it was presbyterians" Davis