A slap in the face

[ebonywnd]

So, yesterday, my mom tells me that she and Dad sent away for a petition that will "stop those atheist who want to keep church and state seperate."

Now, okay, that considered by itself isn't too bad, everyone has a right to their own beliefs...but they have NEVER before shown much interest in politics.

I'm just glad that my brother, surprisingly, sided with me and told my mom, as she went on a tiny rant, that her biases were showing. She as much as told me I was in a cult, but then told me that cults were made of satan worshippers and those under his influence. I asked her what a cult was, and she didn't have a clear answer. I hate to say it, but she's got a few blindspots. She said cults were antireligious, and I tried to remind her of all the religious fanatic groups out there. She ignored me, but my brother was in complete agreement. I rather like my brother more than I did.

Yikes, I'd love to rant more, but I must go to work.

Laura "work sucks" McIntosh

[the anti-myrmidon]

Ouch...that really sucks, Laura. Hope things don't get worse.

I can appreciate the frustration when people jump to conclusions about things when they really don't understand them. Obviously, atheism (as the lack of belief in gods) tends to shy away from cult-like beliefs. Cults are defined in academic circles primarily as religious-based movements that develop around a strong central figure, and are not necessarily negative in nature. The popular connotation for a cult as "weird people in a group doing weird things" is far more negative. Personally, I find golfers to be their own cult when using the popular definition (odd clothes and such), but that's another story....

There is also the issue of satan worshippers. Most satanists who have put some thought into it and aren't just bored teenagers don't even believe in Satan as an entity. It's more of an idea. I would be extremely shocked if there were more than a few thousand actual Satan worshippers in the entire country.

Finally, if she's so keen to stop church/state separation, ask her if she would support a democratically-elected Islamic theocracy in Iraq, because a lot of Americans are trying to implement a Christian one here through the democratic system. If she's in favor of an Iraqi Islamic state, then her interest in that petition is more than justified. If not, well...that's another rant for another day. I'll just briefly add that democracy is the rule of the majority, but when minorities are politically and socially restricted, then democracy is nothing more than a farce.

[Seany-D]

Sorry to hear that the 'rents are forming opinion based on stereotype. Maybe you should tell them that you will only form your opinions of Xtians based on the Crusades and the Inquisition, or the Salem Witch Trials, or Pope Pius' tacit approval of Germany's actions during WWII, as opposed to Mother Teresa's constant giving, or the faith-based soup kitchens and halfway houses that are found in larger cities (but still shouldn't violate church-state separation by receiving federal funding).

There is both "good" and "evil" found in every religion, or lack thereof.

Often, when people speak of majority rule in a democracy, they forget the part about minority rights. Not to mention the fact that America got its pasty-white era started when folks who weren't allowed to practice what they believed found the eastern shores of the continent. Tolerance and respect should be the norm, born out of such beginnings. But it ain't.

One can only hope that, through diligent and patient affirmation of logic and reason, you can illustrate your viewpoint in such a way that they will recognize your right to believe -- or at least to not believe what someone else forces on you. And if not, oh well!

Furthermore, ask Moms if she wants gov't. to dictate what goes on in the church minutiae ... that is another aspect of lack of church/state separation that no one sees. It's all fun and games as long as it's your *personal* beliefs that are afffirmed through gov't. Ask her how she'd feel about "one Nation under Allah". Church/state separation allows her to practice what she believes in her heart without judgement under law ... unless she sacrifices a virgin, or otherwise undermines a basic right.

Sean "the narrow-minded are going to reap what they have sown at some point " Davis

[ebonywnd]

As I see it, things will not progressively get worse between my mother and I. There will just be a series of isolated incidences for the rest of her life. I'll do my best to make her see reason, and she'll ignore my words. It will always be thus. That's part of the price I pay for holding different ideas.

It's just the way she brought it up, like a genuine slap in the face. We were all just minding our own business, watching one of her dumb Judge Judy type shows.

It really irritates me to see her prejudices and ignorance...harsh truths about someone I still admire in some respects.

I could ask her all your questions, but she'd likely refuse to think about them. "America's the best country, no matter what, it can do no wrong. America was founded on religion."

It makes me shudder a little.

-Laura

[Rama]

I'm so glad my parents are smart.
My daddy graduated from MIT.
They're...they're both from Texas though.

[ebonywnd]

:: points and laughs::

Texan.

But anyway....my daddy is pretty smart too....he just gets lead around by my mom at times.

[phoenixsong44]

I have much the same situation. My dad is Catholic, and was raised in a very strictly Catholic family. I am forced to go to church every sunday, no matter what. I hinted at my atheism to my mother and I was amazed to find that she understood. Yet I still have no choice on the matter of attending church. If he knew that I can't stand the Catholic church, and everything it stands for, he would be ashamed of me. If he knew I was considering joining this group, he would do his best to "slap me in the face". He is full of such unreasonable prejudice.
Luckily I will be attending MSU in the fall, and will finally have a chance at freedom. Your group looks to be exactly what I am looking for.

[Ravenlock]

I've been lurking in this thread since... oh, Jun 15th. I think I'll go ahead and throw down a comment.

I personally can't imagine that kind of obstinance toward my rights to my pov, but I can certainly empathize. Fact is, there's a good chance that Jess and I can count on flak from both sides of the family from our very humanistic marriage ceremony. I think everyone in my family knows about my leanings since it had to be explained why I drove to Washington DC in 02 for a weekend but no real visit, and while I'll be doing so again in two weeks. Both times were related to this group, but then I have some family who doesn't really know what I do.

Meh. We'll see how it all goes down on 9/5/04.

And to PhoenixSong44 - welcome! I was in a Roman Catholic family myself, but it was never an issue with my parents. My mother is much more internalized with her faith and my father is... who the fuck knows what he is. If this eventually comes out that you're doing this, all I can say is to just stand your ground and challenge them to disqualify your beliefs. As the saying goes, we're all atheists, but some just believe in one less god than most.

~Roger "Leismit?" Smith

[Seany-D]

Hi PS4-squared,

We're always looking for week souls to indoctrinate and convert to the dark si ... oh, wait. wrong speech.

<folds up paper, which burts into flame>

I hope you'll get a chance to check out some of our meetings when the fall semester rolls around. I think you'll find that our breath of scope is large; we tackle "traditional" freethinker topics like philosophy and religious motivation as well as "current event" topics like separation of church and state and the abortion debate. Interspersed through our meeting schedule are pseudopolitical activities such as our Darwin Day monkeyshines, complete with Ian in a gorilla suit chasing a banana, social activities like Game Night, and, of course, the famous post-meeting brewhahas at the Union Food Court. The reason I became involved was the fact that I enjoy debating these issues with both the like-minded and skeptics. I hope you'll find it a worthwhile way to spend Wednesday evenings. Oh, and I also got involved so I could stick stupid phrases in my post taglines. Keep an eye on the webpage for meeting info. as the fall hunting season ... er, semester, kicks into gear.

-- Sean "unofficial summer spokesman and beer quaffer" Davis

[everythingmustgo]

for four years i played in my dad's church's praise band every single sunday morning. but now that i'm here, i sleep on sunday mornings. free at last, free at last!

[Prothonotary]

Sleeping in on Sunday is wonderful. I only wish I had thought of it sooner!

Heather "too many Sundays sitting in a pew" Dover

[UsherBen]

sleeping is indeed much better. sitting in pew stinks

sorry, had to go there