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Post by Ravenlock on Oct 28, 2003 16:03:04 GMT -5
Jess, Susan, Sean, and I are going to be appearing at the City Council work session tonight in hopes that they will at least look at the resolution.
We don't know why they didn't put it on the agenda, aside from the excuse Mark Meadows gave the State News. We're hoping it can still be seen tonight. To that end, it would appear that anyone who can make it tonight (we're meeting in the court house lobby at 6:30) will help our case look more supported. I know this is short notice, but if you can make it out, it may help.
See you then,
~Roger
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Post by Ravenlock on Oct 28, 2003 23:17:58 GMT -5
Wooooooot!!!! November 17th-21st is now Church/State Separation Week in East Lansing! The Council approved MSUFA's resolution with only the above change so as to not coincide with an already established recognition week. (Bible Week) This is the only concession they asked of us, and it actually works very well, as we'll now have an ENTIRE week instead of just a half holiday week. Props out to Ian, Carolyn, and Jason for showing up to support, and special uber democracy props to Sean for helping us compose the resolution and submit it.  This is gonna be shhhhweet! ~Roger |
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Post by profdunebastard on Oct 29, 2003 8:39:47 GMT -5
It was quite awesome. I am still happy about it, and it's the morning.
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Post by Seany-D on Oct 29, 2003 10:18:04 GMT -5
Boo yah. We did well last night. This is me celebrating ... and testing my ability to post to this board.  -- Sean "no more suits for awhile" Davis |
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Post by the antimyrmidon on Oct 29, 2003 11:01:09 GMT -5
I am likewise very happy about last night's events. ;D
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Post by the anti-myrmidon on Oct 29, 2003 11:02:18 GMT -5
grr...grumble...I thought I was logged in already  |
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Post by Seany-D on Oct 29, 2003 15:33:05 GMT -5
fun fact: I see from the east lansing city council's minutes from the 14 october meeting that the resolutions sponsoring bible week and recognizing the 50th anniv. of the christian science church were both sponsored by Councilmember Sharp. While I can see how he could take our resolution personally, this was not the intention and his reaction was both immature and uncalled for ... debate would have been more productive.
Sean "I guess he figures heathen hands carry disease" Davis
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Post by AnonymousUser on Oct 29, 2003 18:50:20 GMT -5
great job guys....
i wish i could have been there to show my support as well, but alas, i have a 7-10 bio lab every tuesday this semester (damn college requirements)
maybe next time i'll tag along as well.
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Post by Seany-D on Oct 30, 2003 10:10:12 GMT -5
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Post by Ryan on Oct 30, 2003 20:00:32 GMT -5
I just thought I would tell you guys that you have no idea what you are talkin about. Bible Week is not trying to force religon down your throat. If you dont want to read it or participate in the week then dont. Quit whining and complaining about how Bible Week is so fundamentally wrong. You cant give me one valid reason how this week is more unconstitutional than your blasphemous Church/State Separation Week. There is not single spot in the entire Constitition where it states that the Church and the State shall be separate. Rather it states that the State shall not force any religon upon its people. And if you want to make any other observation days unconstitutional then maybe you should also ask yoursle if months like Black, Women, Hispanic, etc History Months are constitutional. I hope you all are satisfied with your outcome. It is simply a pity that since you cannot find peace with God in your own personal lives that you have to hinder others from finding Him. This all I really have to say so I hope you take this to heart and think about what you have done.
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Post by AnonymousUser on Oct 30, 2003 21:32:34 GMT -5
i hate it how people think that the constitution exists in a vacuum, the SCOTUS does make rulings that shapes how the constitution is applied. I believe that all the 'X' history months are constitutional becuase of the whole fact that those kinds of things can't be changed on a whim (disregard michael jackson). And the only person that i've seen 'whining' about this issue is you. We took action and (intelligently) talked to people about this issue as opposed to going to some christian organizations message boards and saying how they are all stupid and should shut up about it, not that i'm implying anyone would stoop to that.
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Post by Ryan on Oct 30, 2003 23:04:34 GMT -5
I would stoop to that because I dont see how it is stooping at all. You wanted to have an open discussion on the issue at hand and since I wasnt invited to the discussion in front of the city council I figure its ok to voice my opinions on your message board. After all since all of you are free thinkers my views should not conflict with anything because it is my choice to believe what I want. So next time you think about adressing the issue come up with some better arguements than the standard "we are right and you are wrong"
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Post by AnonymousUser on Oct 31, 2003 9:40:51 GMT -5
Weren't invited eh?? that must've been quite the feat as city council meetings are open to the general public. 2nd, i dont think that anyone ever said "i am right, you are wrong." If anything, you are the one that has an arguement like that. "There is not single spot in the entire Constitition where it states that the Church and the State shall be separate" (i.e. you are wrong) "It is simply a pity that since you cannot find peace with God in your own personal lives that you have to hinder others from finding Him" (i.e. i am right) now how about you giving us conclusive scientific proof about the existence of a 'god' and we'll hurry right up with that evidence for the constitutionality of bible week, quid pro quo
oh, and another thing, if you want to come here to bitch about us, at least go to the right section of the forum (punching bag)
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Post by Ryan on Oct 31, 2003 10:33:31 GMT -5
You dont need to have scientific proof that God exists. You need only to accept by faith the He is out there. With all of the intricacies in the universe how on Earth can you say that it was all by chance that the formation of the universe happened. If the Earth were slightly closer or farther away from the sun, the planet would burn up or freeze. The moon is in the perfect loacation so that it will not tumble away and our tides do not increase drastically. Heres an idea how about you give me concrete evidence that God does not exist.....then we can talk. There is no chance that we are all here without the divine hand of God.
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Post by profdunebastard on Oct 31, 2003 12:18:07 GMT -5
"You dont need to have scientific proof that God exists. You need only to accept by faith the He is out there"
How is this valid. I could simply replace the word God with magical divine koala monster, or Superman, or Zeus, and you would be in the same spot we are in. You know Zeus and magical divine koala monsters do not exist, you see no evidence for them and traits attributed to them, lightning in Zeus's case, have explanations that make more sense to you and are based on material data., but if someone has faith in them, there is no way possible to disproove them.(in the believer's mind) All evidence/signs pointing to there existence is hearsay or a part of their mystical and mysterious character.
I am happy you have God, he fills a niche in your psyche you need, and I respect that. I feel that niche is dependent on many factors, biological, psychological, enviornmental, and etc, and not just a cross shaped hole
Imagine if the seperation of Church and State you loathe so much didn't exist, and Islam was the national religion, or vodou, or satanism. I think you would have a better perspective of our situation if you looked outside youer preconceived notions and analyzed things from different perspectives instead of reading it in an arcane tome written 20-100+ years after it's main character "existed" that recounts things you never see on a day to day basis and is littered with contradictions and historical inaccuracies and just taking your parents' and religious instructors'( priest, minister, reverend, snake handler?) word for it on face value.
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